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From: bas@lowell.edu (Brian Skiff)
Message-Id: <199908100539.WAA26447@zwicky.mars_hill>
To: francois@simbad.u-strasbg.fr, pluto@gwi.net
Subject: GSC-ACT
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Francois,
     Bill Gray, a colleague who writes astronomy star-chart software, has
recently produced a revision of the GSC v1.1.  This was done in a manner
similar to that of GSC v1.2, but using the ACT catalogue (instead of PPM)
as the reference frame.  The result, which he calls "GSC-ACT", is similar to
GSC v1.2 in the sense that the per-star scatter is the same (0".3 to 0".4),
but the systematic errors of GSC v1.1 have been removed.  Some tests of the
catalogue on CCD frames have been performed by Jure Skvarc in Slovenia.  He 
finds that the results are quite good when compared against the USNO-Flagstaff
transit-circle data for the SDSS equatorial calibration fields (whose errors
are vanishingly small compared to the GSC).  Gareth Williams, Minor Planet
Center, also accepts asteroid astrometry done using the new catalogue as the
reference frame.
     Despite having done a fresh re-reduction of the GSC, Mr. Gray feels this
is not really a "new work", and is reluctant to make the complete file
available, except for the transformation coefficients.  Since you have had
recent experience with STScI politics, perhaps you can understand this
reluctance!  I nevertheless think it should be more widely available.  Since
he has quite limited Internet bandwidth from his home, I naturally thought that
you might be interested in making such a catalogue available.  We have a set
of CDs with the catalogue at Lowell, which we are planning to use with our
telescope-control software and various plot routines locally.  It would be
easy to make the files available for you to copy from our ftp site.
     If you are interested, I would urge you to contact Bill Gray directly
(pluto@gwi.net) for further details.  His commercial software site starts at:

http://www.projectpluto.com

...with the thorough GSC-ACT documentation linked at:

http://www.projectpluto.com/gsc_act.htm

Jure Skvarc's astrometric reduction tests against the SDSS regions
(impressive work for amateurs!) is at:

http://kastor.ijs.si/~jure/fitsblink/astrometry/astrometry.html

Finally, the SDSS calibration regions are described by Ron Stone et al. at:

ftp://ftp.nofs.navy.mil/pub/outgoing/calibregions

Apparently there is a paper in preparation about these data.
     I hope you will find these of interest.  I also hope the clouds in
Strasbourg will break long enough to view the eclipse!

\Brian

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Replied: ====> 15-Aug-1999 (Sun) 02:38:05 / follow ====> at end of Message
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From: "Bill J. Gray" <pluto@gwi.net>
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To: francois@simbad.u-strasbg.fr
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   I've just received a copy of Brian Skiff's e-mail to you,  about the
recalibration of GSC 1.1 to ACT ("GSC-ACT") that I've put together.

   As Brian mentioned,  I do not have a great deal of ftp space.  So far,
most use of the new dataset has used the software and table of coefficients
on my Web site.  This is usually quite convenient,  since it lets people
switch quickly between GSC 1.1 to GSC-ACT,  and doesn't require a new
set of CD-ROMs.  And it avoids even the slightest possibility of
raising copyright issues with STScI.

   However,  I _have_ made CDs of the data,  in the same format and
organization as the "original" GSC 1.1 disks that STScI provides.  If
you wish,  send me your mailing address,  and I'll send you CDs.
Depending on how you're set up,  this may be more convenient than
getting 1.2 GBytes of data via ftp.

   I've made a similar offer to STScI,  and have also asked about
copyright issues.  There has been no reply.  I don't really know
if I can claim this re-reduction of data as a "new work",  and I
have found STScI to be _extremely_ sensitive about use of STScI
data and source code.  I've also found that they tend to wait until
_after_ something is written and posted to complain about it. But
at worst,  they would probably ask that the data no longer be
distributed,  except in the current source-code-and-coefficients
form.

-- Bill Gray

====> Reply by Francois Ochsenbein [CDS], 15-Aug-1999 (Sun) 02:38:05 =========
To: "Bill J. Gray" <pluto@gwi.net>
cc: bas@lowell.edu
Subject: Re: GSC-ACT disks 
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:19:21 -0400 (EDT) .
----------- (http://cdsweb.u-strasbg.fr/CDS.html)

Hello Bill,

I just saw Brian's message (I'm currently in vacation, accessing
my mail only occasionly) -- and yes, of course, I would be interested in 
the GSC-ACT ! If you can mail a copy on CDs, my address is below.
Getting 1.2Gb could be possible via ftp during a week-end, but the
CD is definitively better ! Using your C code to make the position 
corrections could also be a possibility -- I did'nt try yet to get
your code and apply it.
Just also a remark about your "GSC-ACT files and information" page: 
GSC1.2 is also available for queries at
http://vizier.u-strasbg.fr/cgi-bin/VizieR?-source=GSC1.2
(for a limited number of sources, as the result of an agreement with
STScI...)

Once I have the CDs, I'll most likely come back to ask some more
questions... I will check on my side what can be arranged with the
STScI.

Best Regards,

Francois Ochsenbein
CDS, Strasbourg
================================================================================
Francois Ochsenbein       ------       Observatoire Astronomique de Strasbourg
   11, rue de l'Universite F-67000 STRASBOURG       Phone: +33-(0)3 88 150 755
Email: francois@simbad.u-strasbg.fr   (France)        Fax: +33-(0)3 88 150 740
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From: francois (Francois Ochsenbein)
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Hi Bob,

I include below a message I received from Brian Skiff about an
astrometric recalibration of the GSC1.1 using Tycho (in fact ACT) data.
It looks interesting, and I would like to include it in vizier.
Bill Gray, who did this, is willing to give a copy -- he also mentions
that he tried to contact the STScI about the copyright issues but
did not get any answer. Could such an installation generate any problem ?

See you -- will you be at the observatory to-morrow ?
Francois

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From: hanisch@stsci.edu (Bob Hanisch)
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Regards, Francois.  We are back in the U.S. and back at work, starting
today.  We sure do miss Strasbourg!  Susan and I had a terrific time, and
we each feel like we finally had the opportunity to work, write, and think
about things of interest to us.  In a way it is a shame that one has to go 
away from one's regular job to do this, but I suppose the flip side is that
this way you also get a chance to live other places and experience new things.

Anyway, I will discuss this issue about GSC V1.1 with Brian McLean, who
has taken over the leadership of the Catalogs and Surveys Branch.

Cheers,
Bob

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From: "Dr. Brian McLean" <mclean@stsci.edu>
To: "Bill Gray" <pluto@gwi.net>
Cc: "Francois Ochsenbein" <francois@vizir.u-strasbg.fr>,
        "Bob Hanisch" <hanisch@stsci.edu>
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Greetings Bill,
	I have just learned (via a circuitous route from CDS) that you have created the
GSC-ACT catalogue, but that you are reluctant to make it more widely available
because you are concerned about copyright issues. Let me assure you that our
copyright on GSC was obtained to try and limit commercial misuse of the data and
that we try not to restrict its use for scientific and educational purposes. It
is my opinion, after reading your web page on how you created this version, that
a re-reduction using a better reference catalogue is a very valid contribution
and is worthy of a description in the astronomical literature and should be more
widely distributed to the scientific community.
	You have, in fact, completed a project that we were forced to abandon due to
our limited resources and other priorities. We had intended to re-reduce the GSC
using the ACT (or TRC, whichever appeared first!) and release it as GSC 1.3 and
this was one of the reasons that GSC 1.2 was not widely distributed since we
planned to supercede it. In practice, we were forced to put our resources into
GSC 2.n work and GSC 1.3 languished.
	The bottom line is that I would encourage you to make the catalogue available
via the CDS services and I would be interested in a version here at STScI.

On another matter, reading about your work reminded me about the issue of
GETIMAGE copyright that the previous CASB branch chief had been dealing with. I
had not been directly involved in those discussions and after looking through
old email, I am unsure if they had been resolved. Can you let me know where that
stands?

	Best wishes
		-Brian


Dr. Brian McLean, Branch Chief,
Catalogs and Surveys Branch, Space Telescope Science Institute,
3700 San Martin Dr., Baltimore, MD 21218, USA

URL  : http://www-gsss.stsci.edu
Phone: +1.410.338.4900
Fax  : +1.410.338.4767

